An Interesting conversation on my college network (keep in mind, I go to an evangelical school :D). Skip or peruse for your personal enjoyment!

Verne asks:
Has anyone read anything about Acharya S? She wrote a book, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold". That is her pen name. I have a friend who thinks she is the wonderful and that she has proven that Christianity is nothing more than a refined paganism. How do you counter such stuff? Should we?

Matt:
Counter it with history. Counter it by reasoning through Christianity's basic premises and philosophy. Counter it with reason and logic. Counter it with action. Such a statement is absurd.

Scott:
Yes, it is true that a lot of Christian practices are "historically tied" to pagan practices. Often though the tie comes in that the Church was trying to redeem the practices of people by giving an alternative to following the pagan practices. Another tie that has happened is when the message of Christ has been and is watered down and the practices of the world are allowed to creep into the church. This has allowed pagan practices to creep into the church, but has also allowed other more subtle forms of following the world to creep in as well. This can be seen with the "health and wealth gospel" and various other forms of straying from the true gospel of Christ alone. I believe that the counter to all forms of trying to discredit Christianity is to be real and truthful. Yes, the Church has made grave mistakes throughout history. But the Church is not Christ, we are but weak people trying to follow Christ. Sometimes we make mistakes, sometimes we live fully into the life of the Spirit totally changing the face of the world we live in for the One we lovingly follow. But no matter what we do, it does not change the Truth which is Christ. Just because someone tries to pass of counterfeit paper money, it does not change the integrity of gold.

David:
Sounds interesting. What is some of her logic? I would agree that countering might not be the best tact. Despite how clear things may sometimes seem, logic and reason is often not our primary "battlefield."

Matt:
History as in the fruit of each. Where Christianity has remained constant, paganism has not. Where Christianity has bettered the world, tempered human nature, paganism has not.

Of course this all depends on how you define Christianity. Pagan practices in certain branches of Christianity, like the many found within Catholicism, in my opinion, cannot necessarily be contributed to Christianity. Nazism cannot either, nor can Timothy McVeigh (I know I spelled that wrong, but I don't care) I guess that means I would support a more narrow definition of Biblical Christianity then some would. I guess I am just narrow-minded.


Xenia Katie:
Check out "Acharya S"'s website (www.truthbeknown.com) and ask yourself if her anti-religion antics really aren't just a self-promo for her own faithful following. A self-proclaimed "visionary" and "scholar," Ms. S seems pretty self absorbed, and just as authentic as "Miss Cleo" the TV call-in psychic. Her arguments seems to be little more than sophomoric, juvenile rants...

Your question is, should we counter this stuff? Well, that's all it is: STUFF. Counter it? Please do, but I wouldn't get too worked up about it. Here's a quote from one of my favorite books:

"This type of approach leads to illusion and eventually spiritual delusion, a dangerious spiritual state. Once someone begins to twist things, they become unable to see the obvious, never mind being able to see the truth." (Sarah Elizabeth Cowie, More Spirited Than Lions).

Matt:
I think her site is cute! She is just expressing herself!!
OR
In reality she is the classic degenerate liberal. She hates God and everything good. Funny first, then it's sad second.

Josh:
Matt that seems a little disingenuous. You are ready to claim all the posatives of claiming christianity, but disinherit any negatives. Likewise you are ready to dismiss any posatives of Paginism, and jump over all the negatives. This is not honest. Be fair. I know it is in your nature to ignore all things that do not agree with your opinion, but try it out this once.

I hope you know that I love Christ. I think that He holds Truth, where paganism is lacking. But that does not invalidate the love that I felt from a wiccan, the only person in my highschool who showed any compassion toward me. The Christians certaintly wanted nothing to do with someone less popular than themselves. Life is not so simple as you make it out to be. Sure, you are trying to be loyal to your Christian beliefs, but full honesty, even when it hurts your case, is a part of living the Christlike life.

Scott:
So what does it mean to be a Christian? How do you define Christianity? I believe that if you define it in a biblical sense, then you are talking about those who choose to follow Christ, the living Christ, the One who rose again, who is alive and active in this world, and who said he would be with us, even to the end of the age. But we need to be a little careful here. Jesus himself said that if we follow and yet love mother or father or sister or brother or anything more than him, then we are not worthy of God's Kingdom. "Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God." - Luke 9:62 -

If the definition of being a Christian means to follow Christ with absolute abandon, being obedient to the Father, not looking back to anything the world would tell us is important, then I would think that almost every single one of us in the US church needs to take a second look at what we are doing. How often do we trust ourselves to take care of business, forgetting that our very survival comes by the grace of God? How often do we compartmentalize our faith into convenient little times and places within our lives as to cause us the least amount of sacrifice to be "obedient"? The scriptures say that, as Christians - those who follow Christ, we would be known by the love that we have for one another. Yet even in the life of one of our own (Josh), the truth was that no Christian brother or sister opened their life to him in a way that made him feel accepted, much less loved, in the name of Christ. Is this what following Christ looks like? If you go back and read Acts, the ones who chose to follow Christ were so easily identifiable to the world.

As one who wants to follow Christ, I need to go back and examine my intentions in how fully I seek to follow. Following half-way brings me short of the Kingdom of God. Following in compartmentalized fashion brings me only a partial faith. My honest desire is that I can some day live in a way that even if someone briefly brushes through my path that they would know that they just met a man who has chosen to follow Christ. I am so far from that right now. Maybe someday...by the grace of Christ in my life...

Matt:
Well Josh. If Christianity is a relationship with Jesus, one in which we are to follow his commands, love, act justly etc... Then I guess I can't say that there are "negatives" to Christianity. On teh other hand I have no problems finding negatives within people who call themselves Christians. People are people, whether they are Christians or not they are fallen, sinfull, depraved beings.

Paganism on the other hand (not pagan people, but paganism) has no redeeming qualities. It is a perverted philosophy and religion. It is inconsistent, and the fruit of paganism is ultimately bad.

There are no negatives whatsoever with Biblical Christianity, only with people who fail to act within it. So we agree, maybe, we are just focusing on different things. You should be glad, I am being an idealist.

Verne:
thank you for your responses. I have already checked out www.truthbeknown.com and found it lacking in many ways to the honest skeptics of some other sites. She draws way to many simplistic comparisons and conclusions between the mystery cults and Christianity. For an example. The Vatican is built on the ruins of an ancient temple. The Pagan symbols are still there for everyone to find. Therefore Christianity and Catholicism has it's origin in paganism. Another example, Mithraism existed before Christianity and flourished until Christianity came about. There are similarities between Mithraism and Christianity, such as a communal supper and breaking of bread. There is a form of communion. Therefore Christianity evolved from Mithraism.
I have found it difficult to convince my friend that even if there are some physical characteristics in the rituals which are similar, that doesn't mean that Christianity evolved from Paganism or that Religion in general is a natural developement of the human mind as we seek for and ascribe meaning to the world which surrounds us. In other words, Like and Is are not the same. This is not that. And similar doesn't mean the same. To which my friend replied that it was meaningless prattle.
I guess the best way to respond is to keep driving home the truth untill he recommits himself or decides to hang-up our friendship. Thanks again.

Xenia Katie:
Verne, thanks for bringing up such an interesting topic.

In the Apostolic missions to other countries, as the disciples sought to bring the Truth to new nations, it was not uncommon (and is not uncommon) for them to "baptize" certain practices--even pagan practices, as a way to bring them Truth. There were many beliefs that tribes had that dated from before Christ's time. It's amazing how many people, who were practicing even pagan rituals, did so because that was the only way they could worship to the best of their ability. An Orthodox nave ("sanctuary" where worship takes place, if you will) is historically and architecturally a baptized Jewish temple-- even today you would see many similarities between the two places of worship. Early Jewish Christian's didn't just throw the baby out with the bathwater when they converted to Christianity (going from liturgy in a temple to strumming guitars and singing contemporary music in a white-washed room), but they retained all that was good in the temple and got rid of all that was no longer needed, now that the Messiah had come. But Christ is also the fulfillment of many indigenous religions that were practiced years before His ministry. So is it with Orthodox missions today-- retaining the practices or customs that are important to the culture, which don't contradict the Church (which is why there is such a beautiful array of ethnic expressions, as we see Orthodoxy practiced in Kenya, Tanzania, Australia, Romania, South America, Asia, etc. as well as Greece and Russia).
So, I can see where one might see pagan similarities to Christianity and therefore deem it "proof" that Christians are pagans in disguise. But from the time of Christ, throughout history, and even to the present day, missionaries have brought Truth to non-believers through the good of their very own culture (and throwing out the bad, i.e. human sacrifice, idolatry, illicit practices), baptizing it as a means to express the Truth in a way they can understand without diluting the message.
We even see this coming from a different angle in evangelical Protestantism: "baptizing" something like, say, rap music, and using it as a unique means to reach a culture.

Thanks for letting me ramble